Who needs the Seder? | עמוד דיון
תקציר
Who needs the Seder?
The urgent need of Pesach in our Jewish and Global era
Maggid – Retelling the Passover Story
This is the bread of poverty
that our fathers ate in the land of Egypt.
Whoever is hungry, let him come and eat;
whoever is in need, let him come and participate
This year free people.
סיכום ביניים
This Evening
(Sunday the 1'st of May)
At 8 pm (BST)
A video Webinar!
We will meet to discuss and recapitulate
the questions and sources
in this Discussion page.
To participate in the meeting
Go to this link
meeting ID 813 791 747
We recommend you watch
this video recording
of our last Webinar (Sunday 24.4)
Here are the sources for both webinars
הדיון המורחב
Pesach is clearly the most family oriented holiday in the Jewish calendar.
This element of the Seder is also engraved in the Halacha .
On the other hand, Pesach is notorious for its Jewish and universal is message of freedom.
see for example a this captivating dialogue between Senator Joseph Lieberman
and Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks .
The puzzling question is how does the family orientation correlate
with the strong universal message of freedom?
I once saw a fascinating Ted talk
that claims that in our generation we are
less free because we are more free: ,
Our overwhelming almost infinite freedom of choice.
has made us not freer but more paralyzed,
-
x
Wow! That is an amazing video. Thanx a lot.
Free Choice is mayhem in my eyes. Slavery was and always will be the Automatic response of human beings wanting to shield themselves from chaotic life. I think the bible knew this, and thus warns the begging slave: "But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,' then his master shall.… pierce his ear with an awl'. The bible knows the powerful connection between love and slavery: love, lust and passion, have a lot to do with each other. They are the same.
Therefore, if freedom can't be held back by some sort of slavery, in my eyes it becomes a punishment. I think men know this better than women do, for a man without disciplined will soon degenerate into a biological loveless sex addict, wanting to spread his biological heritage to all women like a cat. Women on the other hand, are held back from freedom naturally by the full length of pregnancy which makes promiscuous behavior pointless from an evolutionary perspective.
Finally, I will add that anybody coming out of Egypt thinking he was on a ride towards freedom soon got a waking call by god, most strong and vengeful, giving him the ten commandments to make his head straight.
As we are getting near to the end of Pesach ( and our summing webinar Sunday night)
we would love you to go to our sources page
and see if one of them inspires you and trigger thoughts that you could share with us.
תגובות אחרונות
As we are getting near to the end of Pesach ( and our summing webinar Sunday night)
we would love you to go to our sources page
and see if one of them inspires you and trigger thoughts that you could share with us.
The last day of freedom is the day you marry!
Now seriously ; Family is a situation that your Freedom gets limited.
You might think that raising a family is the best thing you can do
but Freedom !?
Levi ganz
Now seriously ; Family is a situation that your Freedom gets limited.
You might think that raising a family is the best thing you can do
but Freedom !?
I think freedom is in a way, a heavy burden, especially on modern man. To have so many choices is in a way, a chaotic thing.
In that sense, I am not sure Pesach is a Chag celebrating a present we get. The moment the Jews left Egypt, was the moment they stepped out of the circle of duty into the circle of choices. It’s the moment they became responsible. Out they went from the circle of victimhood into making their own way in the desert.
The idea of freedom that is detached from family life is mind boggling to me. It is the scariest notion I can think of. It is loneliness and mistakes you can't recover from, having no one to fall back too. But the idea of family life without freedom in it is also scary too me. It is a prison cell of love, a warm and stifling hug.
Maybe Pesach is the tension between these two needs: freedom and belonging. I myself, as an individualistic person, am more worried about the dangers of freedom…
עקיבא רגן
In that sense, I am not sure Pesach is a Chag celebrating a present we get. The moment the Jews left Egypt, was the moment they stepped out of the circle of duty into the circle of choices. It’s the moment they became responsible. Out they went from the circle of victimhood into making their own way in the desert.
The idea of freedom that is detached from family life is mind boggling to me. It is the scariest notion I can think of. It is loneliness and mistakes you can't recover from, having no one to fall back too. But the idea of family life without freedom in it is also scary too me. It is a prison cell of love, a warm and stifling hug.
Maybe Pesach is the tension between these two needs: freedom and belonging. I myself, as an individualistic person, am more worried about the dangers of freedom…
I think you are over anxious about the dangers of freedom.
Of course you should be careful not to hurt other people's freedom
but beside that I think that freedom is the ultimate value , above most others
רותם צור
ן think you are over anxious about the dangers of freedom.
Of course you should be careful not to hurt other people's freedom
but beside that I think that freedom is the ultimate value , above most others
Well, I would say that freedom is nice up to a certain point. If you are a slave for instance, better to be free. But absolute freedom means nothing in my eyes. You can be free as a balloon and very lonely, sitting on your mountain top. How can that be the ultimate value?
Like Levi suggested, I think marriage or any other relationship is counter freedom. I personally think love happens when people commit. Commitment is the basis for relationship, not freedom. At least in my eyes.
all the best,
akiva
עקיבא רגן
Like Levi suggested, I think marriage or any other relationship is counter freedom. I personally think love happens when people commit. Commitment is the basis for relationship, not freedom. At least in my eyes.
all the best,
akiva
we are committed to and slaves of the Lord only
–enslavement to any other is tyranny injustice false etc
and must be cast off
–Shulchan Aruch:
Eved Hashem, sheh Hashem ba lev livadoe chofshee.
Peninnah Rachel
we are committed to and slaves of the Lord only
–enslavement to any other is tyranny injustice false etc
and must be cast off
–Shulchan Aruch:
Eved Hashem, sheh Hashem ba lev livadoe chofshee.
It is personal and subjective.
I don't feel my freedom is lost through my commitment.
In contrast, my freedom is enhanced and increase
as a result of my commitments as a Jew, as a scientist as a wife etc.
Well I agree that slavery is bad from a theological point of view, but from a human point of view we are all very much bound. Passion, is a form of slavery. Love is slavery. You may commit to take care of your lawn as a master, but you don't fall in love as a master. You don't become a parent as a master. You don't become a husband or a wife as a master.
And when you say you can be a slave 'only to god'- well, who is this god? Is he some Amorphic master in the sky? Or is he the same thing that makes you want to be a scientist? A wife? Isn't god part of that? In other words- If you are a slave to god- aren't you a slave to your own life as well? For god is the depth of it, isn't he?
So I believe that getting out of Egypt wasn't the end of slavery for anybody really. It was just the beginning of deeper form of slavery, a more passionate and truthful one.
עקיבא רגן
Well I agree that slavery is bad from a theological point of view, but from a human point of view we are all very much bound. Passion, is a form of slavery. Love is slavery. You may commit to take care of your lawn as a master, but you don't fall in love as a master. You don't become a parent as a master. You don't become a husband or a wife as a master.
And when you say you can be a slave 'only to god'- well, who is this god? Is he some Amorphic master in the sky? Or is he the same thing that makes you want to be a scientist? A wife? Isn't god part of that? In other words- If you are a slave to god- aren't you a slave to your own life as well? For god is the depth of it, isn't he?
So I believe that getting out of Egypt wasn't the end of slavery for anybody really. It was just the beginning of deeper form of slavery, a more passionate and truthful one.