I am trying to figure out who is closer to the concept of the hagada . In a way the Hagada can be understood as an answer to Lennon's challenge , which I see as the demand to keep on again and again to try to free ourselves from the different kind of Pharaoh's,(all "gods" in our lifes) that threaten our real freedom.

Thanks Judith. In last week';s Sugia we discussed the beginning of the Ten Commandments, when the "freedom" from Egypt is held out as a reason to accept the Torah and its own rules & guidance. Do you think there's a contradiction here – does our "real" freedom require rules of its own? (And if so, aren't we back to Dylan?)

Sofia,

I find you comment about Dylan as being:"very funny and I think effective "

very intriguing can you elaborate?

Thanks for your thoughts Jo – what do think that means for us?

The original Exodus from Egypt was so important to our identity as a people that everything that comes afterwards – the revelation at Sinai amd our acceptance of the Torah – is dependent on it. If in every generation we are threatened & redeemed in the same way, how do you think that should influence our interaction with our texts and practices?

I am not sure , but maybe , and I know it might sound harsh, we have to know that before we try to live an active Jewish life based on those texts , we first have to care about our physical survival .

Thanks Jo  for your thoughts- but couldn't you say the other way round as well? It needed divine intervention for the Israelites to be saved from Egypt, and according to the Torah they only were able to get that by still being identifiable and distinct as a people and a culture.

Or put another way – what's the point of surviving as "a people" if we don't have a culture and identity to define us as "a people"

Hi Ana,

Dylan sings about the need for people – no matter how powerful or independent – to identify with causes and ideals greater than themselves. "Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But you're gonna have to serve somebody" – ultimately we are all subject to and part of forces greater than ourselves.

Lennon's piece was actually written in direct response to Dylan's record, and disagrees by talking about how we all need for find our own ways – "serve yourself" and identify with other people – "it's your own mother" – rather than causes.

Does that sound true to you? Which perspective do you prefer?

thank you for your clear explanation, but I don't think that they necessarily disagree. I don't know the original intention of Dylan  – but I think it could be interpreted as a protest against the chains of having " to serve somebody".

Hi Levi – an interesting thought. So it is appropriate for us to recite "now the Omnipresent One has brought us close to His service" if as you say we are in need of freeing ourselves?